In this episode of Madam Policy, hosts Dee Martin and Caitlin Sickles sit down with Diane Foley, founder of the James W. Foley Legacy Foundation. Following the murder of her son, American journalist James Foley, while reporting in Syria, Diane transformed personal tragedy into a national effort to improve support for families of hostages and wrongful detainees, strengthen journalist safety, and advance U.S. hostage policy. She discusses the evolution of the Foundation’s work, the importance of government engagement and public awareness, and the lessons she has learned about leadership, resilience, and moral courage in the face of unimaginable loss.
Watch the Conversation on YouTube:
Transcript:
Dee Martin
Hi everyone, and welcome to Madam Policy. We have a very exciting episode for you today, and today I get to cohost with Caitlin Sickles, one of my dear friends and colleagues of fifteen years, if you can believe it. But who’s counting? Yeah, who’s counting? Every single day. No, who’s counting? So our amazing guest is Diane Foley. And Caitlin, I would like to ask you to introduce Diane, if you would.
Caitlin Sickles
Sure. So I am thrilled to be with you, Dee, and to be recording this episode. So, today, as you said, Dee, we are so honored to welcome Diane Foley to the show. Diane is president and founder of the James W. Foley Legacy Foundation. Diane’s son, James, or Jim Foley, was an American conflict journalist. He dedicated his career to telling the stories of people living through war, humanitarian crises, and political instability, and because of that work, Jim reported from some of the most dangerous places on Earth. People may know Jim because in twenty twelve he was kidnapped while reporting in Syria. He was held hostage for nearly two years before being murdered by members of ISIS in twenty fourteen. His death, which was posted online in a really horrific way, shocked the world, but his courage, his compassion, and his commitment to bearing witness continue to inspire journalists and advocates around the globe. And on a personal note, Jim was a proud Marquette University graduate, as am I, which is how I came to know Diane. And I think what’s important for listeners to know about Diane is that in the wake of that unimaginable loss, Diane and her family chose not to let Jim’s story end there, and instead transformed that horrific personal tragedy into a lifelong mission to ensure that other families would not have that same experience, and would not have to navigate the experience alone. So that leads us to the James Foley Foundation. We’ll talk a lot about Diane’s work and the work of the foundation in the course of the conversation. People should know that Diane is a speaker, including last year at the Vatican, and an incredibly powerful witness of faith and forgiveness, which you can find on YouTube and should. She’s also an author of the best-selling memoir American Mother. So, Diane, we are thrilled to have you. Welcome, welcome to the show.
Diane Foley
It’s my honor. Thank you so much.
Dee Martin
I would just add two things. One, Diane, thank you — thank you for your leadership, thank you for your strength, and thank you for being with us today. I wanna talk for just a minute about what many of our listeners already know, and that is Jim Foley’s name, of course. But I don’t know that they know the full story of what a remarkable individual he is — who is the person behind that name? But before we get into the foundation, as Caitlin suggested, and your advocacy work, I want you to tell us just a little bit about Jim.
Diane Foley
Well, thank you for asking. Jim was our oldest, oldest of five. He was a fun-loving little boy, always curious, interested in the world around him, loved to read and make believe — I mean, he would act out his stories — and was always into adventures. He was really interested in history as he got older, interested in people and what made them tick. You know, he always had a real variety of friends. He was interested in all types of people. So I don’t think he was ordinary — ordinary like all of our kids, ordinarily wonderful, you know. He was just a good kid, you know. He was kind and full of fun, but he was also late and wasn’t perfect — he had his issues in school.
Dee Martin
Two among us. Yeah.
Diane Foley
He was a very ordinary wonderful person. He really was.
Dee Martin
Well, thank you for sharing his story today. And I wanted to thank you also for being with us and allowing us to represent you — Diane and the foundation are one of our clients here at the firm, one of our pro bono clients, and it is an honor to get to talk about and share the work that you do with everyone we know. So thank you for that.
Diane Foley
It’s my honor.
Caitlin Sickles
So let’s talk a little bit about the work that you do. So after losing Jim, of course, you and your family could have chosen to grieve privately, but you didn’t — you all transformed that loss into this foundation. So talk a little bit, if you can, about that journey. You know, my recollection, I think, is that you started the foundation just really days or weeks after Jim’s death. So how did you get the strength to found the Foley Foundation so quickly? And then I do, of course, want to talk about the work that the foundation does now.
Diane Foley
It was such a difficult time. But I think — I know my faith came really from my faith in a loving and merciful God, and from the goodness of people. I mean, once this horrible, horrible beheading of Jim happened, we were just surrounded by such good people — surrounded by love and support and encouragement and hope. And also, I was really challenged by Jim. Jim just wanted to make a difference in the world. Jim wanted to do some good in his own little way, and he challenged me. He would not have wanted to be remembered by his death, but rather by what he could bring to the world. So we all kind of knew we had to find a silver lining — we had to find something that would make Jim’s life meaningful. And that’s when we were challenged, and given the courage, really, to use our voice, to speak about the injustice. I mean, I really was appalled that our government abandoned Jim and Steven Sotloff and Kayla Mueller and Peter Kassig. I was appalled. I never expected that to happen. And I knew our country could do better. So I just think all of that together challenged me and gave me the courage to just use my voice.
Caitlin Sickles
Right. So there are different elements of what the foundation has done and continues to do. One of the things I think you’re alluding to here is policy reform around how our government treats Americans who are held hostage or wrongfully detained around the world. And then part of the work of the foundation too is on journalists and press freedom And educating journalists on how to be safe as they take on what are — I mean, have always been dangerous careers and are increasingly dangerous careers. So talk, if you can, through these different components of what the foundation does. And I think I can speak for a lot of people, having been involved with the foundation, that it has given Jim’s life and legacy a lot of meaning. You know, people regularly talk about how you and the foundation have fundamentally changed the way that we consider people who are wrongfully detained. So just talk a little bit about that work.
Diane Foley
Well, yes. I think once we decided to start the James Foley Legacy Foundation, we had to figure out what we would do. Jim was a multifaceted person, as we all are, but two of the most urgent needs came to the forefront. One was the fact that our government really felt prohibited from helping us — because of anti-terrorism laws, our government did not feel they could negotiate for Jim’s release, and therefore he was not helped. And I think we all began to feel that our country could and should have the backs of innocent Americans who were taken hostage abroad, particularly when they’re working as a journalist, educator, diplomat, even as a tourist — you know, if they’re innocent and not doing anything wrong. So that became our first priority: to advocate for any innocent American in need of the help of our government. Secondly, we felt particularly concerned about freelance journalists. Journalists who are part of a big organization, like CNN or BBC, have security teams, have people who go with them and protect them. But more and more, particularly in the most dangerous parts of the world, it’s the freelance journalists who are on their own. So we were very concerned about promoting journalist safety and making sure that freelancers could be empowered and protected as much as possible. And the final thing was that Jim was challenging me, inspiring me, and so we came up with our tagline of inspiring one another to have the moral courage that Jim, you know, has challenged me to have.
Caitlin Sickles
And you and the foundation are certainly living up to that challenge. You’ve taken on quite a few elements. Thank you.
Dee Martin
You know, so, Diane — I first met you, I don’t even know if you’d remember this. Let me preface it this way: I first met you when I attended your annual event, your dinner that you host, one of your very first events. I was with Ali Soufan, former FBI agent, and he invited me to join at their table. It’s a beautiful, powerful event, and I think it’s so important because of the awareness-raising piece that it does, and you’re doing that every day. That was my first exposure to the Foley Foundation, and I’m so glad that it was. So I think on the awareness front, we see a lot of the work that you’re doing, and it’s so important. When you think about the policy work that you’re doing and you look back, what are you most proud of in terms of your policy accomplishments?
Diane Foley
You know, I’m just so proud of so many good people who stepped up. First of all, the fact that now we have a US hostage enterprise that has brought home more than two hundred fellow Americans from wrongful detention abroad — that to me is miraculous. So I’m very, very proud of the many good people, both in government and outside of government, who made that possible. I’m also grateful for the many people who’ve really worked hard to protect freelance journalists and who have contributed to our curriculum, which we use in universities to make sure that students studying to be journalists recognize that they also need to know how to protect themselves and their sources. But the other thing that I didn’t expect is that I’ve just been really proud of the fact that Jim’s story has inspired so many good people, both students and people abroad. I’m surprised — I mean, the interest in my memoir, American Mother, it’s been translated into seven languages, and I just find that incredible. That’s amazing. But it also makes me realize how similar people are, even across different cultures — family and goodness and courage matter no matter what culture you’re part of. So I’m deeply proud of all our work, which I never could have done alone. It’s through wonderful partners and people who made it possible.
Dee Martin
Well, it is wonderful work. And I just wanted to say, I was looking at your website in the past couple of days, and you have forty different individuals listed on the website who are currently detained or being held unlawfully. You’re doing such an amazing job raising awareness of the plight of these people and others, and I’m not sure that everyone knows the peril that exists really at all times. So it’s so important for those people and for those families to be highlighted on your website and to be talked about.
Diane Foley
Well, that’s the hard part — these problems haven’t gone away.
Dee Martin
Right.
Diane Foley
If anything, nation-states and non-state actors are using the kidnapping of innocent people as political pawns, and that’s the part that’s very challenging. I really feel those forty we’ve named are the tip of the iceberg. There are so many families who don’t dare be public about the fact that their loved one has been kidnapped. So it’s something that we still have a lot of work to do — certainly on deterrence, prevention, and raising awareness more, so Americans really recognize that we’re targets. Westerners are definitely targets as we travel internationally.
Dee Martin
So a through-line here is that you are giving voice to those who may not have a voice, as you didn’t have a voice in the beginning, when Jim was first taken. And you are doing a powerful job in giving people that voice. I think Jim did that too, right? He was giving voice to what was happening on the front lines, and in fact, if you go back, he was giving voice to the students he taught in school. So his world, it seems to me, has always been about communication and sharing these stories — sometimes troubling and difficult stories. And your book, American Mother, captures that, and it also delivers your voice in a most profound and reflective way. So I want to talk about something I know is very important to you, and that is moral courage. If you’ll indulge me, I’d like to share one of Jim’s reflections on courage. He said: ‘For some reason, I have physical courage, but really, when you think about it, that’s nothing compared to moral courage. If I don’t have the moral courage to challenge authority, to challenge the system, to write about things that are going to have maybe reprisals on my career — if I don’t have that moral courage, we don’t have journalism. So I just think we’ve got to make sure we have the moral courage.’ Now, Jim was talking about journalism, right? But you seem to echo that in your life and work as well. So what does moral courage mean to you, Diane, and what does it look like in your work today when you’re advocating for wrongful-detention families?
Diane Foley
Well, if I’m honest, I had never thought about it until Jim talked about it. That day was when he returned from Libya and he was actually at Marquette University talking to journalism students, and he challenged me. I thought, why are you thinking about moral courage, Jim? And, oh, that’s — you know. So he really challenged me to think about that. And it isn’t always easy to do the right thing — it’s a good thing, you know, it’s easy to get disillusioned. There’s a lot of bad things happening in the world, a lot of hurt, a lot of tragedies, and yet that’s why we need so many people who are willing to do good, who dare to use their voice, even in little ways, of goodness and kindness to one another. To me, moral courage is something that I think we all — myself included — need to aspire to every day, because there are many things that’ll keep us from doing the right thing. So to me, moral courage is just listening to that little voice that tells us the right thing — be it being kind to someone, helping someone, changing your plans for someone else’s need, that kind of thing. And sometimes it’s really brave things, like speaking up against an injustice. To be honest, after Jim was killed, I was angry, and I had to fight my own feelings of bitterness. How could my government let this happen to Jim? How could they just abandon him? I was appalled by it. And I had to pray to transform that bitterness into the challenge of it, into: well, what are you going to do about it? How are you going to use that injustice for good? So I think that’s the challenge that moral courage gives us all — we have that choice every day and every hour of the day, you know.
Dee Martin
Let me talk about something that I think takes moral courage — something you did that I don’t know that I would have the capacity to do — and that is forgiveness. Would you mind talking about the meeting you had with one of Jim’s captors and how you found forgiveness in your heart?
Diane Foley
Well, I think that’s where our faith comes in, to be honest, Dee. I think most people of faith in the world recognize that we human beings need to be able to forgive ourselves and others — otherwise the world would really be in total chaos, right? None of us are perfect. And to be honest, when I was given the opportunity to meet with one of Jim’s murderers, I knew Jim would have wanted me to. I was rather curious — I wanted to talk to him, I wanted to hear his side of the story, and I wanted him to hear from me who Jim was. I didn’t expect much, Dee, but I was astounded at what a moment of grace it was, because over three days, we spoke. And he listened to me, and he had a lot to say, so I listened to him. And I think that’s what our world needs — we all need to listen better to one another. And actually, that was one of Jim’s gifts that I always took for granted — Jim was a very good listener. The best journalists really hear people; they really hear what they’re trying to say. So as far as my meeting with Alexanda Kotey, he was full of remorse. He apologized to me multiple times for what I’d gone through as a mother. And it wasn’t that hard to see myself, and our sons, about the same age as Alexanda — we’re all imperfect people, and that’s where we need to be willing to acknowledge that and, you know, seek to forgive one another. So it’s a process, you know, Dee, but I think it’s a very healthy process.
Dee Martin
Thank you for answering that. I’m sure it’s not an easy thing, but it’s an important message, and forgiveness is powerful. Diane Foley, you are one of the most powerful people I’ve ever met.
Diane Foley
That’s sweet of you to say that. But no, I’m pretty much a wimp — but it’s with God and good people. No, but I think that’s what we need in our world. We need to encourage one another to be the best people we can be, and to do the hard things sometimes.
Caitlin Sickles
One of the powerful things I’ve heard you say, Diane — I heard you say it in a commencement address at Marquette — is that the call of Jim’s life, as you’ve relayed to lots of young people in particular, is not so much to follow him into journalism, unless that’s what your soul desires, but really to see who you’re supposed to be in the world. What does the world need you to do? And then have the courage to follow it. I think that’s a really inspirational message, along with, of course, the other things you were just saying.
Diane Foley
I’ve just come to really believe that. I mean, life throws us a lot of curveballs, right, and sometimes we find ourselves in awful, wonderful situations. But I think it’s in those situations sometimes that we’re really called to use those opportunities, use whatever gifts or talents we have, you know. It can be challenging, though.
Caitlin Sickles
Yes. I want to pick back up on something that Dee mentioned earlier, about — you know, from the website — there’s a number of families who are listed. You also mentioned the two hundred people who have returned home, working closely with the foundation. Of course, so many of these situations are very sensitive, confidential. But is there a story that you can share about the foundation’s work, or about a family that you’ve worked with, that captures what it is that you all do and why the work matters so much?
Diane Foley
Oh, there’s so many, but there’s one that comes to mind. It was a young journalist, very talented, who’s a dual citizen — American and Russian — journalist, works for Radio Free Europe, and was stationed in Prague. She went to visit her ailing mother in Russia and was wrongfully detained. She was held for two years in a Russian prison. Her husband was frantic trying to figure out — she had two teenage daughters, one a preteen, and beautiful, lovely young girls. He would come to the US, and at that time, because she was also a Russian citizen, she was not considered wrongfully detained by our Secretary of State. So one of my privileges was working with her husband, Pavel Butorin, another journalist, and with the Department of State to show that Alsu was in fact wrongfully detained, that there was no justification for her imprisonment — and getting to know the family, working with them and the partners that we work with, to help her release. So when she came home to her two girls — and I’ve seen her since, she’s now serving on the Foley board of directors — I just can’t tell you the joy of that reunion. That’s Jim’s legacy to me. Jim would have wanted that. And there are so many stories like that — we have so many. A missionary, Jeffrey, was held in Africa — he was taken by a terrorist group, and it took us a long time to get him out because we still have a lot of restrictions on using ransom for release, and he was held for a good five and a half years, tortured — a horrific time. But we, through another partner, helped get him home. Just an amazing sense of gratitude.
Dee Martin
I think one thing you’re pointing out here, Diane, is that it’s about, obviously, the person wrongfully detained, but it’s also about the families and loved ones of the person wrongfully detained. And you’ve done an amazing job in the policy space — you’re certainly considered a leader when we’re talking about wrongful detainment, particularly of journalists. What do you hope policymakers and public servants are thinking about when they’re crafting policies related to those who are wrongfully detained — laws or guidance for the United States government?
Diane Foley
Well, I think all our policies really need to be based on research, on real happenings — what are the real consequences to people? And I think that’s why we started our research with hostage families and returning people who were returned, because we want to know: is this new enterprise working? What works, what doesn’t? And that’s helped us make recommendations for laws, like how to improve our current hostage policy. Because when our government refused to negotiate for Jim, that wasn’t really based on research — if you had looked at the research at that time, it was a given they all would have been killed. That’s what the research showed: if you don’t engage at all with the captor, that’s what happens. So I feel it’s very important that our policy be research-based, and really based on the needs of our people — that the voice of the people needs to be part of the process. It’s essential to make things work and to make policies really sound.
Caitlin Sickles
One of the resources we should point to as part of this conversation is that the Foley Foundation puts out a report on the state of wrongful detentions around the world — basically, how the government is responding, what’s going well, what’s not going well. But I think one of the most valuable aspects of it is that a lot of the report is based on the foundation’s work actually sitting and talking with the families. Your report is really the only one that does that — that talks not just statistically about where things are, but personally, about the unique experiences of both people who have returned and families who are still waiting for their loved ones to return. So that report, I think, is instructive for policymakers working in this space.
Diane Foley
Well, it’s helped us, because afterwards I remember my good friend and mentor, David Bradley from The Atlantic — he wanted to encourage me to do research. He said, ‘You’ve got to talk to the people experiencing it now’ and find out what’s working, what isn’t. And it’s really been incredibly good advice, because it’s helped us work with our government to let them know what’s working and what isn’t. So this fall, actually, in September, we’ll be putting out a new qualitative report on the experiences of people who’ve returned. Because many people who’ve returned from long captivities are really in tough shape, and currently there’s not a lot to help them, and that’s the focus of this upcoming report.
Dee Martin
So, Diane, that’s in September — that’s when it’s being released?
Diane Foley
Yes, thank you.
Caitlin Sickles
So, as we’re starting to wrap up this conversation, one of the things listeners may be wondering is how they can help. So, for people who are inspired by this work, I just want to give you an opportunity to talk about what would be the most meaningful ways for people to support the foundation and how they can get involved.
Diane Foley
Oh, thank you, Caitlin. We’re always looking for good people to help us. Our work has been totally built on a community of many people — thousands of people who come to, we have two events every year. One is a gathering in Washington that Dee mentioned earlier, and that started really as a vehicle for families to come and meet government officials and journalists, to help them advocate for their loved ones’ return, and it’s become more than that — it’s become a fundraiser for us. So everyone’s invited, and we usually have it in late spring. We also, every October, have an opportunity for a virtual run/walk — we call it the James W. Foley Freedom Run. Just a 5K, anywhere you want, and our website’s open for that, FoleyRun.org, right now. So we’re looking for sponsors, people who want to get a cute T-shirt and make a difference for others just by participating. I’d invite you to watch the film, Jim: The James Foley Story — we use that a lot with students and at public events to raise awareness. And my little memoir, American Mother — we’d be happy to send you a copy. A lot of classes have been using it, both in university and high schools. So I’m really grateful for any way that you can be part of helping fellow Americans, keeping our journalists safe, and keeping our democracy free.
Dee Martin
That’s beautiful. I do have to pick on the fact that you called it a little memoir, because it is a bestseller. It’s been translated into seven languages. It’s an international bestseller, and it’s a beautiful book.
Diane Foley
Thank you.
Dee Martin
You are a very humble and modest woman. You’ve done incredible things.
Caitlin Sickles
If you do support the Foley Foundation, you, like me, can get a lot of these cool stickers, buttons, all kinds of things. I feel like I have a virtual shrine to Jim and the Foley Foundation in my office, which would probably unnerve him if he saw it, but here we are.
Diane Foley
Probably, most likely. Anyone can go to our website too — it’s jamesfoleyfoundation.org, and that’s where we have a lot of information. I’d invite and welcome all of you.
Dee Martin
Okay. I’m supposed to be asking you my last question right now, but before I do that — you spoke at the Vatican. Caitlin just sort of casually mentioned it at the top. Tell us about that. What an amazing honor and privilege. That must be such a humbling experience. Please tell us about that.
Diane Foley
Well, it’s undoubtedly the honor of my life. A total, huge surprise. A lot of it thanks to my coauthor, Colum McCann — an amazing Irish American author who usually writes fiction, but he became a friend after we met each other, and he helped me put together my memoir. His wife is Italian, and they have a lot of connections at the Vatican and in Italy. So it was through Colum that I initially met Pope Leo. And then about a month later, he invited me to come and speak at Saint Peter’s. So it was the honor of my life — it was really, yeah, it was very, very special. We took our local parish priest with us, and we’ll never forget it. It was just being with good, good people of faith, and very humbling. Talk about humbling.
Dee Martin
Yeah. Okay, so — I take notes as we go, because I keep all my interview notes, and we’ve done almost two hundred episodes, and I just like to look at them later. But I just want you to know, all I wrote at the bottom was ‘Pope.’ I don’t know what else to write, I don’t know what else to say — it just says ‘Pope.’ One day I’ll read that again and be like, yeah, Pope Leo — she just threw that out there, Pope Leo, at the Vatican. I mean, it’s amazing.
Diane Foley
Well, it was cool because it was just shortly after he’d been elected. And, our first American pope. Yeah, so, you know, yeah.
Caitlin Sickles
It’s been amazing.
Dee Martin
It’s amazing.
Diane Foley
It’s really amazing.
Dee Martin
Okay, now I’m gonna go to my real last question, which is this: We end every episode by asking our guest, as you look back, what advice would you give to your twenty-four-year-old self?
Diane Foley
Wow. I think the most important thing for young people is to remember what a gift life is, and to use one’s life for good. I really — you know, youth is the future, and I think we need to really challenge and inspire our youth. I was lucky to have faith, to have parents who were always encouraging me, and I think a lot of kids need that kind of encouragement. But also the challenge to be willing to do the hard things, and if things don’t work out, to be able to pivot and make the best of whatever happens in life. So I really would hope that young people can stay hopeful, because they’re the hope. To me, anybody’s life can make all the difference in our world, just by how they live it and what they do.
Dee Martin
That is beautiful. Let me tell you what my notes are gonna reflect now: use your powers for good — this is Diane Foley — use your powers for good, do hard things, have faith, have hope.
Caitlin Sickles
Sounds perfect.
Dee Martin
No, I mean, I think I’ve captured it.
Diane Foley
I do too.
Dee Martin
It’s not as eloquent as what Caitlin would write, but that is how I will forever remember you. No, really — I don’t mean to make light of it. It is your experience, that you have turned into such a beautiful lesson of triumph and strength. It’s an inspiration, and I just want to say thank you.
Diane Foley
Well, thank you — thank you for this opportunity, and for all you do to help folks like us and so many others.
Dee Martin
It’s our pleasure. Thank you.
Diane Foley
Yeah. Thank you. God bless you both.
